Wednesday, March 24, 2010
Pleasure
Dr. Griffin was saying that one of the students pondered on their midterm about why we always choose the hardest path and why pleasure gets a bad wrap. I was wondering if you guys wanted to talk about what you think about that. It's very common in a lot of philosophies especially in modern religions.
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I am personally quite confused by this tendency. I would like to tell myself that i don't feel guilty for doing the things that feel are natural to me. I don't like to think i am forcing myself to move away from nature and my own primal desires. On the other hand, i also think that in such a blessed society where every (at least physical) need we have can be met immediately, it's good and makes us feel human when we remember what it is like to be in nature and want for things. hmmm?
ReplyDeleteWhy do we always choose the hardest path?
ReplyDelete- I think that deep inside, we want to take the hardest path. By choosing hardship, we feel as if we have accomplished something. Life would not feel anywhere near as rewarding if we had lived it taking the easy route, that's just not living.
Why does pleasure get a "bad wrap"?
- I would have to blame this one on society. You wouldn't have to feel guilty for doing things that were natural to you if it wasn't for the pressures and norms established by modern society. Many of these rules for society were established through religions. Take Christianity for example, at some point the church defined sex before marriage as wrong (perhaps even a sin), so now there is a huge association with sex and evil, as if the desire to have sex should be repressed. The same theory can be applied to the obese. Eating can be extremely pleasurable, but because society has labeled the overweight as ugly and unhealthy, the pleasure associated with eating is sometimes looked down upon.
I guess another question that should be addressed is whether these societal rules are good or bad for individuals.
I think that the whole pleasure thing is wrapped up in what has been come to be known as the hedonistic "if it feels good, do it" lifestyle. There are aspects of this lifestyle that many find morally, legally, and ethically questionable; I, for one, don't have a problem with what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults - it's their choice, not mine, and I can't (morally, legally, ethically) find fault with what they are doing, since there is a good chance that I do things that they might not agree with.
ReplyDeleteI think that the whole pleasure principle gets a bad rap here in the US due to the Puritans settling here and bringing their strict work ethic and warped views about things non-work such as sex (sex = bad, work = less bad). Remember, the Puritans were so uptight that they were kicked out of both England and the Netherlands...
There is no way of knowing what and which way would be harder or easier to take in life. Everything floats around circumstances and time that comes upon us. Something easy for me can be harder for someone, so there is no way of saying something is easy or harder, just considering one perspective.
ReplyDeleteThe way I interpret the hardship and pleasure concepts is that without hardship/pain/suffering we cannot fully appreciate pleasure. Pleasure would have no meaning without pain. We choose difficult paths because the rewards are that much greater in the end.
ReplyDeleteI agree, taking the path much less traveled becomes more rewarding because the individual feels that within their decisions, ethics, and morals they have done and lived what feels good and right.
ReplyDeleteI believe that without hardships, risks, and challenges, society will not grow nor change, weather you believe change is positive or negative, it is inevitable that we, our world, our resources, our ideals, are always in a constant motion. From our need for pleasures (physically, mentally, emotionally) we create new paths and new risks.
I thought this was an interesting topic, I wish we had a chance to go over this in class. :)
While it is true that there is no way of knowing which path is easier to take, we associate a greater level of difficulty with some. For example, deciding between the stairs and the elevator: we always assume the stairs are the more difficult path.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the reasons one may choose the more difficult path is that we feel that doing so establishes a sort of individuality. If everyone takes the "hard" path, is it really that hard? By choosing the option that fewer people choose, one may feel a sense of superiority over the supposedly greater number of people who choose the "easier" path.
Parts of the path are easy and parts are difficult. Some difficult aspects just happen--people reject us, we get bad grades, our pets die, we move in and out of relationships, we eat Chartwell's food-then we don't.
ReplyDeleteWe sometimes learn from these experiences--the lessons are always there. We are shaped by such experiences and we form world views based on our experiences. -that is why Bacon talked about the 4 Idols--our experiences shape us and preclude us from understanding that there are other realities.
The difficult path is somewhat like Bacon's dictum to vex nature to give up her secrets. Those hard times that vex us can also give us a bit of enduring truth--kind of like Chakiro (sp) in Spirited Away. She is transformed by her experiences. She, unlike others, seemed open to the possibility of being transformed.
They say that it isn't what happens to you but how you respond that makes you who you are.
The Greeks had a term "kairos"--it roughly means appropriateness. Sometimes enjoying food to the utmost is appropriate; sometimes fasting is best. Ours is a world of seemingly binary choices-- weak or strong; difficult or easy; light or dark;..The truly hard part for me is navigating the shades of grey.
Last in this long post --I met a really interesting person yesterday. He was born into a wealthy family, traveled the world, learned many languages, had the greatest education.....and he ended up working on Skid Row with the homeless. He became a monk with the the order of Mother Theresa--in fact he visited and spoke with her many times. He talked a lot about this difficult path. He said that the hard part was simply sitting with the pain of now knowing what to do when life took its unpredictable forks in the road. He said if you sit long enough with a hard decision, allow the pain to simply exist and deal with it on its own terms, eventually there is a clarity that is unmistakable and then the path is easy (until it gets hard again :-) Very Platonic, very much the stoic's path.
Another point on "take the hardest path" that I do not think was mentioned is to take the path that requires the least number of steps. I know I end up doing this much of the time in working on cars. Take X part off of the car to get to the piece you need to fix or just go straight to the part (assuming that it is accessible).
ReplyDeleteIn my mind it does not matter if I could get to the broken part easier if I take another part off. It "seems" more logical to directly address the issue as it requires fewer steps.
It seems to me that there are a couple of factors contributing to pleasure getting a bad rap.
ReplyDeleteFirst is culture and (cultural) history. Daniel touched on this with society, but I'd take it a step further. Western European societies have come out of a fuedel system where the lords valued work from the peasents, not the peasents themselves. This is reflected in many places, religeon included. If you are out seeking what makes you happy you aren't producing crops for the lord--this isn't acceptable!
This ties in to my second factor: control. Most (if not all) social structures are set up to control behavior. Once the pursuit of pleasure for its own sake is considered improper, something else can fill the void.
Philosophical structures help establish the basis for our society (such as all the connections we've already seen between philosophy and science). It doesn't seem quite fair to discuss pure philosophy without at least stepping back for a minute and examining the society which causes/is caused by it.